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Discussion: Junior Nationals/Troll Cup results

in: Troll Cup and Junior National Champs (Apr 28–29 - Holyoke, MA, US)

May 1, 2018 11:16 AM # 
PBricker:
Team and individual results are here.
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May 1, 2018 11:31 AM # 
gordhun:
Thanks,
Are the courses headed to Route Gadget?
Great course setting Phil.
May 1, 2018 11:34 AM # 
PBricker:
Yes, hopefully route gadget will be up later today. I'll post a link.
May 1, 2018 12:59 PM # 
JanetT:
Thank you for a fine and challenging weekend of events! With the weather beyond your control you did the best you could, and supporting staff were cheerful and friendly.

Fun to see all the juniors and junior teams, and congrats to the Cambridge, Massachusetts team who successfully challenged the Warhawks from Georgia (who still went home with some trophies).

Champions listed on the OUSA website (let me know of any corrections needed)
May 2, 2018 12:39 AM # 
gordhun:
Is this a record for the Interscholastics?
I found one student who has won five titles in four different states spread over - get this - 11 years.
Awesome!
Guess who!
May 2, 2018 6:02 AM # 
GuyO:
The CRLS (Cambridge) Falcons also successfully challenged the Union County (IN) HS/MS Patriots, who were defending their 2017 Varsity and Intermediate School titles.

Their JV team -- pretty much the same kids as last year's Intermediate team -- took Silver, despite some disappointing Sunday runs.
May 2, 2018 10:16 AM # 
barb:
CRLS JV actually took bronze. I'm very proud of them all! They trained hard and learned a lot.
May 2, 2018 2:43 PM # 
jeremycolgan:
Is there or will there be a routegadget for this event?
Thanks
May 2, 2018 2:44 PM # 
GuyO:
CRLS JV did indeed take bronze; to clarify, it was Union County JV that took silver, with their 2017 Intermediate champs team kids. All three of this year's UCMS Intermediate team members were 7th graders; hoping to have more in 2019.

@Gord: The 11 years has me stumped; I'm thinking this student would have to be on an IC team by now. Did you mean team and/or individual titles?
May 2, 2018 2:52 PM # 
bubo:
Julia Doubson!
May 2, 2018 6:25 PM # 
gordhun:
bubo has the answer. Good detective work my Swedish friend!!!
By my math she must have started winning these titles when she was seven or eight years old?
May 2, 2018 9:40 PM # 
JanetT:
I first noticed Julia as a seven year old, who *won* the White course at the first Boggs Mountain event I attended (also Western States Champs). No wonder she ran the sprint on the WOC team last year. Speedy!
May 3, 2018 4:09 PM # 
PBricker:
I expect routegadget for the event will be up and running by tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
May 4, 2018 10:24 AM # 
CoZ:
By all accounts, a great event.
However, according to the published individual scores, Warhawk Gold won the ISVM trophy as well.
A team deep with good orienteers deserves to be recognized as such without detracting from the individual distinction of others.
May 4, 2018 11:29 AM # 
BorisGr:
CoZ>> What do you mean?
May 4, 2018 11:33 AM # 
fossil:
I haven't hunted down the scoring system to find out how it works, but what seems odd is why someone who was DNS both days would have points recorded in the results. Is that an intended feature of the scoring system?
May 4, 2018 11:36 AM # 
Bob-F:
If you use the published individual scores, Henry County also won Gold on Varsity. However, it is my understanding that CRLS had a very fast runner that was not eligible in the individual category.

If that is the case, it would have saved some confusion if the team results include the individual scores.
May 4, 2018 11:42 AM # 
BorisGr:
I'd love to hear more of the story. What is the situation where someone is eligible for a team, but not individual, award?
May 4, 2018 11:43 AM # 
BorisGr:
Oh, it's Vilppu, isn't it? That makes sense.
May 4, 2018 11:47 AM # 
jjcote:
The team scoring is currently under review as there are some disputed issues. Stay tuned.
May 4, 2018 1:26 PM # 
andreais:
Exchange students are eligible to participate in JV, Varsity and collegiate sports and score for their team.
May 4, 2018 1:31 PM # 
vmeyer:
A.36.5.1 Scores for each race are computed as follows:

For each Individual Interscholastic class, define AWT (the average winning time) as the average of the times of the top three individual competitors in that class (for Championships use only times from Team Championship-eligible competitors). In the event that there are fewer than three eligible competitors with a valid time in any interscholastic class, the AWT shall be calculated as the average of the times of all eligible competitors with a valid time.
For each competitor in each Individual Interscholastic class with a valid result, their score is computed as 60*(competitor’s time)/ (AWT for the class).
For competitors with an OVT, MSP, DNF or DSQ result, their score shall be the larger of 10+[60*(course time limit)/ (AWT for the male class)] and 10+[60*(course time limit)/ (AWT for the female class)] for their team level (Varsity, JV, Intermediate, or Primary).

A.36.5.2 Team Scoring: The best three scores from each race for each team are combined for a team score. Lowest overall team score wins.

A.36.5.3 Individual Scoring: The scores from each race are combined for each individual. Lowest combined score wins.
May 4, 2018 4:35 PM # 
gordhun:
It is time to put the AWT scoring out of its misery. Or perhaps it is that the AWT scoring should be retired so that all of us can be put out of the misery of having to wait around until the last finisher finishes so all scores can be calculated.
Pity the students at this year's Junior Nationals, standing around shivering to get their individual awards only to be told they'd have to wait another half hour in the cold and wet while the team awards were calculated. I assume they hung in. I saw the photos but I left to get warm. So did almost everybody else.
The AWT might have worked when the talent pool was so thin you might not get three out of five successful finishers on a team but that was then. Now is now.
I invite you all to study the Florida JROTC results for this year and last and click on the trophy icon and the top of the page and see how those results are calculated based on the best three times for a category and thanks to Blaik Mathews they can not only track a team's results as soon as the members start finishing but can also rule out teams once their members have been out too long.
See sample If the team is short a second or third person they are assigned an artificial time, just like the AWT system.
IS/IC/ JR NATS: you have come a long way. It is time to move your scoring in to the 21st Century or put it another way use the KISS system!!!
May 5, 2018 12:43 AM # 
PBricker:
Routegadget is up, thanks to Valerie. Let's see those routes!
May 5, 2018 12:41 PM # 
jjcote:
Take it up with the Rules Committee, Gord.
May 5, 2018 1:04 PM # 
gordhun:
Nope.
Not my hill to die on.
The events I stage in the US are done Florida style and that is all I need.
Sadly Canadian Orienteering has not progeressed to the point of seeing the value in junior team orienteering. COF and the provincial associations had a lot of team competitions within competitions and had some nice trophies for them too but they went out of fashion back in the late 1970s.
May 5, 2018 6:21 PM # 
fossil:
Ahh, so it looks like DNS was scored the same as is defined in A.36.5.1 for OVT, MSP, DNF or DSQ.
May 6, 2018 1:26 AM # 
GuyO:
If it's who I think it is, no team scores would have been affected.

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