Discussion: Dutchman Flat and oh the girls of O'

Yesterday an offset copy of the Dutchman Flat map arrived in the mail. What a treat! It made all the memories of the great weekend there come bubbling right back to the surface. Being the curious sort, I checked out some of the surrounding area on Terraserver. I was especially interested to see what might have happened had we (on Blue) gone much higher. And I saw that if we had only gone a little higher, some new kind of symbol for snow would have had to be included! Cool, in so many ways.

It looks like it's a pretty reasonable bet that there is even more basemap which could be surveyed and added to the existing map, especially since the offset version doesn't even include all of the model area. So, if there are any killer whale types out there who know about the basemap, what say you? One flipper clap if there is, and two claps if there isn't.

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Glad to see the ads are finally showing up. As I understand it, all income from them will be shared by the top 7 in AttackPoint's overall ranking.

ok I am convinced, eddie you are addicted to AP, just admit it!

I admit it.

There are ads? Try Firefox and Adblock...

Hmmm, I'm intrigued by this, "flaming-fox" Tell me more.

Hey did you guys ever hear the story of why the maps didn't make it on time for the event? It's pretty funny...

Lets hear it!

Actually, I think the funds go to those with "1"s in their overall attackpoint ranking. "7"s look like "1"s but regrettably are not.

2 flipper claps. The Dutchman Flat map is bounded on all sides by The Three Sisters Wlderness area and the Bend Water Shed. I should have had Ivar do some extra anyway, but due to my inexperience I didn't. We could map Tumalo Mountain for those runners who like a lot of gratuitous climb, however, we are opting for the Waldo Lake area. Specifically, the southeast side of Waldo Lake out towards The Twins and Maiden Peak. We are going to do some rough mapping in a couple weeks to see what is suitable terrain for the evil course setters.

Regarding the offset printed maps, you know that we waited and waited for them, but they never arrived. A week after the event, I got a mysterious phone call. Someone was looking for their cat and found our box of maps in some bushes about a block from Andy's house. The top half inch of maps had some water damage, but the rest were in good shape! I don't know if someone stole them and didn't find what they wanted or if they found exactly what they wanted and proceeded to dominate their class at the championships. We made so many map edits, that we probably wouldn't have used them anyway, but it would have been nice to hand them out at the finish line.

They were printed in the Czech Republic for a very good price. I can provide details for those that are interested.

I was wondering why the map didn't extend further east given the wonderful terrain I saw on my route that took me off the map there. (It saved some climb, but may not have been as fast as the on-map route looking at the splits.) I take it that Bend Water Shed doesn't want us in there.

Info on good, cheap printers is always useful.

Is it ok to go in the restricted watershed if you agree to do so only on an ATV, and promise to tear around a lot and shoot down trees?

Mikell, where you get the 1000-day maps printed? Oxbow?

We get them printed wherever JJ says we get them printed, and Oxbow has been the order of the day for at least the past few years.

Jim, I took that route off the map as well, just for fun, after I had screwed up the race already on control 2.

The printer we used is Zaket.

http://www.zaket.cz/orientacni_beh_a.php?akce=1

His price list is on the website. I believe that we paid about $450 with shipping for 1000 maps. The price increment for 1000 more is less than it costs to ship them. It was supposed to take about 6 weeks to ship with using the el cheapo option. He will ship them with tracking for quit a bit more.

The Southern Michigan Orienteering Club has used them for several maps.

Is it ok to go in the restricted watershed if you agree to do so only on an ATV, and promise to tear around a lot and shoot down trees?

If your political lobby is big enough, you can do anything you please.

The route off the map actually wasn't bad...Jan Urban and I both went roughly that way, though Jan stayed higher and probably saved time. Since it's a long leg, I assume that it was an intended route choice (maybe not to actually go off the map, but at least to take the left side of that hill like Jan did). The right route wasn't much shorter, and had 4-5 more contours climb I recall. Still, I recall thinking that the splits indicated that the right route was a smidge faster. (But probably slightly more tiring due to the climb.)

I recall that the access rights to Quabbin Reservoir in west-central Massachusetts were similar. You could boat on the reservoir, but only in a motorized craft (thanks to the fishing lobby). I was once stopped for cross-country skiing along a paved road there, and threatened with a fine. (I could take my skis off and walk, or drive a car or truck as the ranger who stopped me did, but I guess that skiing on my waxless skiis caused more daamge than the cars and trucks on the road.)

We orienteers tend to try to get access to places by being nice and having lots of meetings with people, but we'd probably be more successful speaking softly and waving a big lobbyist. :-)

Or, you could have the president of your club marry the land manager. That worked for us!

I'm not sure if my wife would like that, but I'll ask. On the other hand, Andy is available! For you single women land managers who want to help us keep Andy in the US, his contact information is here:

Andy Dale, single guy

Jeff, in one post you have done more for the single men of America (and of course Andy is included--he's at least an honorary American by now) than our figurehead NGPC has done in several decades. You're leading the way and setting the example is so many ways. We can all only hope that the NGCP will wake up, revive, and at last turn his full attentions to the task. Otherwise, why is he getting the big bucks from USOF? And, also, it's an open question as to whether or not he might make it 80 like BB has! It's really getting to be now or never for him to deliver on the goods.

But I'm not done yet! This is one of the unpublished benefits of ORCA--matchmaking. Paula said that I should post pictures, so here are 2 pictures of Andy:

http://www.forestrunner.com/orca/uschamps2005/inde...

He is the dashing figure in the logo and the one kneeling on the right in the group photo.

Finally, our maps cost $650 not $450 like I said earlier.

I think Andy can safely stay... since lately, according to the press, the only categories of people deported have been (i) unfortunate young ladies with blue eyes and sad stories or (ii) scary-looking men with beards.

But once out of the States, watch out... overeducated PhDs with "access to" seem to be in a bit of a trouble getting back.

Andy definately knows too much...

I don't see any ads. I'm using Opera 8.02.

Well, well, well ... I guess you just never know what you're going to find when you wander over to Attackpoint!

My feeling is that this whole discussion got a liitle off-topic recently, so, to get things back on track, here's a picture of the terrain that Swampfox spotted beyond the edge of the map, and also the snowy bit up in the bowl of Broken Top. And a sun-dappled forest to dream about. ORCA training will be up there next weekend, featuring a Mini-Mega-O, for all those who missed out last week.

Yes, Jim's route to the left of the bump (Dutchman day 2, Red/Blue) was an intended route choice. I realise that it was a bit naughty going so close to the edge of the map (and Vlad told me so, too). What sold me on it was that I knew there were no surprises there. If anyone did slip off the edge, they just found an unremarkable slope, and always had the bump there to keep them in touch. The optimum route to the left does actually stay on the map, skirting the base of the steep slope. I think the best route overall was to go right, but stay high on the slope, not dropping to the meadow as most did. The slope is mapped as undergrowth there and was a little slow (some deadfall and younger trees), but I thought it was fairly mapped.

So, I'm curious what people think. Would it have been better to have a blander leg that didn't tempt people near to the edge of the map?

Just to get things back off topic again, I should note that, given the gender composition of the US Public Land Manager population, you might have better luck also doing as we did and electing a woman to be your club president.

Since Paula is the only women in the club, no, she can't date or marry any land managers.

When off the edge of the map on Friday before the Champs, I saw a beautiful sunrise and sunset, skyscrapers, a few homeless with their carts, a marching band, and a confused moo(u)se or two. Overall not too slow, and a nice attack point if you go as far as I did—the trail.

"given the gender composition of the US Public Land Manager population, you might have better luck also doing as we did and electing a woman to be your club president."

I've always wanted to be president of something. I'll start taking bids on eBay for any club in need. No proof of gender status provided, you'll just have to take my word.

Okay, so who changed the subject line? :-) (Yes, it took me this long to notice...)

And no, I'm not available either, even if I were club president (which I don't want to be).

But the pictures of the terrain look wonderful. And I'd return to the area for more orienteering (multi-day events especially).

I think that the route choice was fine. As you say, staying on the map was the best route, and the area off the map was unremarkable. (The only unfairness might be that the route off the map was not bad, and might be better for someone averse to sidehills.) Mapping another 50m might have been better, but I wasn't worried about it. (Just a fun adventure for me, as I was only hoping to stay in the running for second at that point, and the hill gave me confidence that I hadn't strayed. Ted was likely way ahead of me barring a major error, as I wasn't running as fast as Saturday, and he had whipped me soundly then. Jan Urban had made a very major mistake before that leg day two, and having caught him I knew he was no threat for second place. (We were neck and neck from 7.5 through 10, even though we took different routes 2 or 3 times.)

How did Andy manage to get this discussion off track anyway? Finding Andy a reason to stay in the US is far more interesting than discussing route choices. Once again, I have to say it: you geeks!

That's typical geek behavior. Women offer themselves up and men don't know what to do about it, so they change the subject to something that makes them look intellectual.

Or maybe it's just a rejection of the quality of the women presented. ;-)