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Discussion: OE Score IOF XML 3 file

in: Orienteering; General

Mar 11, 2015 9:35 AM # 
undy:
Does anyone have an IOF XML 3.0 results file generated by OE Score or whatever OE program is current for score events ?
(If the relevant program can't generate IOF XML 3 result files, then that is useful info too).

Background
I'm trying to find out if there is a de-facto standard to use on the "type" attribute of the "Score" element(s) of PersonRaceResult when you want them to hold (a) net scores, (b) gross scores (c) penalties or any combination of the above.

I don't have OE.

I'm also interested if any other software is using this element to store Score event score data.
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Mar 11, 2015 1:55 PM # 
Juffy:
What does the spec say?

...sorry. I crack myself up.
Mar 11, 2015 3:37 PM # 
vmeyer:
Well, OEScore Help says that XML 3.0 is available for Reports:

"XML export

You can export the result reports into the IOF standard, document type ResultList. You can select between XML V2 and V3. If possible, then the newer format is to be preferred. This export is possible with the report sorted by classes only, because this IOF document type requires that sort order."

However, the option is grayed out.
Mar 11, 2015 9:01 PM # 
undy:
@Juffy - the spec for the XML allows you to specify anything you want for that attribute.... and for OE you are probably right.

Thx both, sounds like I can assume there is no de-facto standard for this.
Mar 11, 2015 9:17 PM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Perhaps because Score is not an IOF format.
Mar 12, 2015 12:10 AM # 
undy:
Precisley, that's why I'm trying to determine the de-facto standard, I know there is no de-jure standard.
Mar 12, 2015 12:40 AM # 
tRicky:
The OE Score that we possess doesn't seem to allow production of XML file results.
Mar 12, 2015 12:46 AM # 
vmeyer:
Comment deleted. :)
Mar 12, 2015 12:59 AM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Undy I wasn't implying you didn't know. I was justifying the greying out in OEScore.
So is there a rogaine XML definition? Perhaps other less well known software (MeOS) has an export function for score events such as rogaines?
Mar 12, 2015 1:17 AM # 
jjcote:
There's somebody who doesn't like Valerie?!
Mar 12, 2015 1:19 AM # 
undy:
I've emailed Stefan this morning about the XML from OEScore.

MeOS doesn't currently include the score in the export, but its a very small fix to make it do that and once I know what the de facto identifier for score points is, I can send that change to the MeOS author, and make it myself in the local fork.

Thx all.
Mar 12, 2015 7:37 AM # 
Jagge:
I believe that score element is supposed to be used for scores athlete earned with this result, like WRE points, national ranking points, galoppen points (1000 for winner and 3 sec equals one point) and such. So even if tag's name is "score" it's not added there for score events and most likely there is no de-facto type attribute naming yet either. I'd suggest not hard coding them, better make it easy to configure when de-facto phrases surface, if making tehm configurable is possible.
Mar 12, 2015 8:43 AM # 
undy:
Documentation:
"The score earned in an event for some purpose, e.g. a ranking list. The 'type' attribute is used to specify which purpose. "

I agree that the tag name of "score" doesn't mean its for score events, but it doesn't mean it can't be used for that. "Score" element is a repeating group within Result, so there can be multiple "score" elements distinguished by the type. I can't see a structural problem, the element is in the right place (within PersonRaceResult).

I'd say that the point score earned in a score event is exactly "the score earned in an event", but I take your point, the overloading of the meaning is a bit ugly.

There's a fairly good chance that the person at SOFT who will look at what we are proposing is the same person who was responsible for the IOF XML 3 schema, so I guess he can correct us quickly.
Mar 12, 2015 8:49 AM # 
Jagge:
Don't get me wrong, I'd think using it for score events is just OK and the way to go. What I I tried to say is I suspect there may not be de-facto phrases yet because of that all.
Mar 12, 2015 9:31 AM # 
tRicky:
If you take Jagge's point, how will he score?

I had thought OE Score was used for exactly that purpose, i.e. score events (as opposed to line course events). I did not realise it could or would be used for, e.g. ranking athletes based on finishing order.
Mar 12, 2015 10:50 AM # 
undy:
Jagge is referring to the IOF XML rather than OE Score.
Mar 12, 2015 11:20 AM # 
Jagge:
Jagged answer for tricky question.
Mar 12, 2015 12:57 PM # 
gruver:
Language is full of illogical things. Line event.
Mar 12, 2015 1:38 PM # 
tRicky:
Don't forget Kiwis!
Mar 12, 2015 11:16 PM # 
undy:
For those interested, I've corresponded with Stephan Kramer and at the moment OEScore doesn't support IOF XML export as you all told me :)

I'll keep him in the loop with whatever we come up with so that he has the option of making this available and compatible in OEScore.

Looking at using the following types on Score elements:
collectedScorePoints - the total before penalties etc
penaltyScorePoints - the late penalty points
bonusScorePoints - any bonus points
resultScorePoints - grand total, the competitors score

Thanks again for your help
Andy
Mar 13, 2015 1:18 AM # 
tRicky:
All?

The OE Score that we possess doesn't seem to allow production of XML file results.
Mar 13, 2015 1:29 AM # 
undy:
Yep, you are now the royal all.
A few other people mentioned the greying out too.

Don't you have a bike to go ride ?
Mar 13, 2015 2:52 AM # 
tRicky:
I rode it this morning but the Garmin lost all my splits so in protest I'm never riding again.
Nov 5, 2017 10:20 AM # 
tRicky:
Has there been any update on this? We ran a score event yesterday and included it in our series points calculation for our summer series in Eventor by directly uploading the CSV file using your web conversion page - typically we run scatter events and do a manual Excel document upload with the info we need - but now everyone's club in the table has been overwritten with their score from yesterday.
Nov 5, 2017 10:22 AM # 
tRicky:
Of course just as I was typing that our local Eventor expert sent me an email saying he'd fixed the problem, typical.
Nov 5, 2017 12:15 PM # 
Juffy:
Yeah, how dare he interrupt your bitching on AP by actually fixing the issue.
Nov 6, 2017 12:22 AM # 
tRicky:
How was this bitching? Also it may have been resolved for Saturday's event but I'm still none the wiser as to how the problem was fixed or how to not make it happen again for the next event.

Also it seems in some instances (unrelated to this) it takes me bitching on AP for things to get done!
Nov 6, 2017 12:56 AM # 
Juffy:
I'm still none the wiser as to how the problem was fixed or how to not make it happen again for the next event.

Have you asked?

Edit: and waited an appropriate length of time for a response, given that dad doesn't live on the internet like I do?
Nov 6, 2017 1:32 AM # 
tRicky:
Yeah I have asked although part of the problem was that he sent an email last night stating there was an attachment to the email to fix the problem (for now) but there was no attachment! So I'm now waiting for that ;-) Would be easier for both of us if OE Score just did it automatically but I don't know that they've solved that issue just yet.

I'm not attempting to have a go at your dad here (much as it may seem that way), just trying to get a resolution to the issue from someone who may know the answer. My 'typical' comment was in reference to the fact the answer landed in my lap just as I was digging around trying to find it!

On a related note, I now have to swap someone who ran on the weekend from the short to the medium course. That should be fun.
Nov 6, 2017 2:06 AM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Score events. Just asking for post event results travails [says he after sorting out the local Billygoat results into a form that Eventor understands].
Nov 6, 2017 2:40 AM # 
tRicky:
I managed to cause much confusion by giving people a one point per minute bonus for coming back early. It shows on the splits printout as a +penalty but surprisingly doesn't appear in the Eventor results (although the -penalties do).
Nov 6, 2017 3:05 AM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
That is one strategy for the organiser wanting to get home early.
Nov 6, 2017 3:58 AM # 
tRicky:
Hardly anyone read the info on the table so they were unaware of it. Plus the bonus wasn't really worth coming back early for, mostly to split people who came back with the same points (although the time would have done that anyway). It certainly didn't stop people making use of the last start at 5:15pm and staying out for the full 60 minute time limit (there was one).
Nov 6, 2017 4:27 PM # 
jSh:
Just an idea possibly worth testing - I noticed sometime that while OS2010 (not OE!) doesn't allow splits export as XML, it surprisingly does include the splits in the results-XML. Possibly OEScore does similar things?
Nov 6, 2017 11:13 PM # 
undy:
I got details of the XML extension a couple of weeks ago and have passed it onto the OE guy, the MEOS guy, the Autodownload guy and the Or guy. The fix is in MEOS-OZ already.

If anyone else needs the spec, let me know, I don't have it to hand, but can dig it out.

Or doen't support XML export, but I've heard back in a fairly positive way from the other three.

Have already used it for an event using the direct connection from MEOS-OZ, just press the upload results to Eventor button and it all worked like magic (the first time, after that I had to export XML and upload).
Nov 7, 2017 2:59 AM # 
tRicky:
The version of OE Score that we have doesn't allow export to XML in any format. We do have a fairly old version though.

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