in: Orienteering; General;
| # Posted 2007-07-06 08:17:46 | |
| j-man: | From the NY Times:
July 6, 2007 A Mainstream Sport That Many Do Not See By MATT HIGGINS In near perfect big barreling surf, the X Games held its annual surfing competition in Puerto Escondido, Mexico, this week at the Mexican Pipeline. When it is broadcast on television next month during the rest of the X Games? events, it will be the only opportunity for most people to watch a competitive surfing event. Surfing has been in the popular consciousness for decades, but competitive surfing gets almost no mainstream exposure. The top 45 men in the world compete on the Association of Surfing Professionals World Tour in 10 events worldwide, which can be seen on Webcasts. The women?s Tour features 17 surfers competing in seven events. Although the Webcasts are popular, the format and schedule have detractors. Among the biggest problems with televising surfing are that traditional surfing contests are too time-consuming, that waves are too unpredictable and that judging is too nuanced for the uninitiated. But recent innovations in the competition format and the development of wave pools that could serve as surfing arenas could help bring competitive surfing to a larger audience. ?Surfing in general does not translate well to television,? said Chris Stiepock, the general manager of the X Games. To take advantage of the best conditions for surfing, the A.S.P. holds events that can run five days during a two-week waiting period, an experience some have likened to a cricket match. The cost of a television crew spending several weeks in the remote locations where some surf contests are held is prohibitive. When the X Games looked to add surfing to its lineup in 2003, executives eschewed a traditional contest format and embraced The Game, a team concept pioneered by the former competitive surfer Brad Gerlach that mirrors traditional sports with coaches, timeouts, periods and fan interaction. Gerlach?s father, the former Olympic diver Joe Gerlach, came up with the idea for The Game while watching the 1993 Ryder Cup on television. By adapting some elements of the golf competition to surfing, he thought the sport could be made more viewer friendly. At the X Games this year, The Game featured three periods, as in hockey. Teams are divided up with four a side, and coaches sit on personal watercraft along the shoulder of the lineup, calling out instructions. The teams take turns in the water, cooperating to catch as many waves as they can for the highest scores. That all takes place in a made-for-TV format of three hours or less. Stiepock said The Game had been a popular addition to the X Games lineup. ?In a broad sense, it has held our X Games viewership, if not helped to drive our X Games viewership,? he said. Brad Gerlach said his vision was to use The Game format to one day get surfing included in the Olympic program. But many say The Game is no substitute for A.S.P. competition. ?That?s not even a true reflection of the sport,? said Peter Townend, a former world champion. ?It?s not even man on man.? Layne Beachley, a seven-time women?s world champion, said individual competition was needed to crown a world champion. Although many surfers reject the idea of competition altogether, Rob Machado said The Game format was more palatable than traditional contests. ?That?s what?s great about The Game,? said Machado, who competed on the United States team, which came in first this week. ?It encompasses the reasons you surf. You?re actually out there with your friends. It?s what you would do at an isolated spot.? Surfing purists would probably reject the idea of a wave pool currently under construction in Orlando, Fla., which would remedy the problem of waiting for waves to arrive. The Ron Jon Surfpark promises to offer steady barreling salt water waves 8 to 10 feet high, a major improvement over existing wave pools, which use freshwater and are designed for swimmers. The surf park will use new technology that alters the contours of the bottom of the pool to create different waves that emulate some of the more famous ocean breaks. The park is scheduled to open in the summer of 2008. There are also plans to open similar parks in Southern California and the New York City area. Although designed as a club where members surf for a fee, Jamie Meiselman, founder of Surfparks LLC, the owner and developer of the park in Orlando, sees the potential for holding large scale competitive surfing events. So does Beachley. ?One element professional surfing lacks is an arena atmosphere,? she said. ?An arena allows the crowd to be right on top of the action. I?d like to see professional surfing staged in an arena like that.? |
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| # Posted 2007-07-06 19:17:53 | |
| simmo: | I don't know about the US, but surfing gets a lot of coverage in both tv and major newspapers in Australia, probably the most coverage of any sport outside the big 4 (Australian Rules football, Rugby, Cricket, Soccer), and at least equal to tennis, golf, etc. They usually cover the ASP mens and womens events, plus any surfers on exceptionally big waves. They don't actually televise events live, but always show the highlights.
Without wanting to seem critical (and I realise j-man has simply reprinted a newspaper article), it appears to me that no sport is acceptable in the US (in the media at least) unless it is a team sport, which has coaches bellowing orders, time-outs, periods, mutliple teams, and fan interaction. To most people outside the US, particularly those from an aerobic sport background, all these are anathema to our sporting experience. Who can possibly respect a fat slob of a coach who can't/won't demonstrate his (its almost never hers) commitment and earn the respect of his athletes by doing, not telling (think Percy Cerutty and Herb Elliott). But of course, conflict sells, and having an aggressive coach is like having a second, back-up adversary for when the main conflict between the teams starts to lag. The need to have teams is another symptom of the need to have conflict - having many individuals competing for themselves and against each other spreads the conflict element too widely. So even individual sports like surfing have to be turned into team games for US television. Time-outs and periods are simply excuses to not train effectively and develop aerobic fitness, as are the concept in American football and baseball of having different teams for offensive and defensive plays. All this stopping and starting in American football, baseball, basketball, etc, are totally boring and a complete turn-off. Unless of course you're an armchair slob who needs an advert. break every few minutes to go to the refrigerator for another beer and a plateful of junk food. As for fan interaction, I'll admit that soccer, cricket and rugby do have their drunks, junkies, yobbos, hooligans and streakers (amongst the players as much as the fans it would sometimes appear!), but I prefer sports where the few fans around also play the sport, and have an opportunity to play. In orienteering, major events - such as JWOC, WOC, etc are always organised with 'sideshow' events for the orienteering public to enter. When someone in the US media says a sport needs to be more media friendly, they are thinking only in terms of a fickle, couch-slob audience with next to zero attention span. They want all sports to be reduced to 5 minute 'entertainment' blocks to suit their corporate advertising clients. So, do we want media coverage of orienteering? Yes, but not in the American style, and not at the expense of eliminating the individuality of our sport, or the opportunity for ordinary orienteers to run around on the championship map ourselves. |
| # Posted 2007-07-06 20:04:48 | |
| Gil: | ... When someone in the US media says a sport needs to be more media friendly, they are thinking only in terms of a fickle, couch-slob audience with next to zero attention span ...
I have to agree with this brutal assessment of affairs in media in US. It is sad but true. None of the major sport leagues do anything about it. For example NBA will advertise Kobe Bryant ? brilliant individual basketball player who does not care too much about his teammates, or even winning games as much as making highlight reel every week because it is better business selling Kobe?s jersey?s then promoting San Antonio Spurs or Detroit Pistons that are one of the few NBA teams that play how basketball should be played ? as a team. As basketball ?expert? I lost interest in NBA till about few years ago when two oddball teams I mentioned started to play type of basketball I appreciated. However regular Joe Shmoe will have no appreciation about the teamwork both teams do, about the defense both teams play. I happen to appreciate not just offensive play but defensive as well. Non-experts (aka regular Joe Shmoe) can only appreciate offensive plays because it is obvious. Unfortunately NBA does nothing to educate Joe Shmoe about the game and this is not limited to NBA. I had co-worker whose cousin got Olympic silver medal in Judo, never was interviewed by ESPN. At the same token ESPN would broadcast lawnmower racing tournaments. Unfortunately that is reality we live in. You don?t have to like it (I don?t) but you got to accept the reality for what it is. But on the note of televising Orienteering ? I am not sure how it could be done and made interesting to non-expert. Even if you know the basics of orienteering ? would it be enough to appreciate certain route choices or certain route choice executions? There is another way however. Purists probably would not like to hear that however? here it goes. I don?t know much about pool/billiard however I do enjoy watching women playing it because some of them are good looking (to keep the PG language). I work with few female co-workers who tend to be more outspoken about certain things and they told me that always watch beach volleyball since it?s probably one of the few sports where you?d see fit, shirtless, sweaty guys for extended period of the time. Why do you think WWF is so popular among women? |
| # Posted 2007-07-06 20:51:21 | |
| j-man: | I agree with simmo's comments completely, although that wasn't the point I was thinking of when I read this.
I think making orienteering popular on TV is hopeless and ludicrous. It is a non-starter. A more interesting question is can it be made popular in countries with different sporting sensibilities, viz., those that do appreciate purer athletic endeavors. The kernel of this article, to me, seemed to be the concessions necessary to make a sport palatable to the masses, in general--illustrated through an allusion to surfing. The surfing example works in the context of the US because the sport is sufficiently understood and close enough to acceptance that these experiments may still leave the essence of the sport intact. Or not? That is an interesting question. How far would one go to make a TV-friendly product? What markets do you focus on? |
| # Posted 2007-07-07 00:04:54 | |
| Nielsen: | Well, aren't we a critical bunch... with all this negativity we could start a typical American talk(shout) radio show and sell millions in advertising spots.
I found the original article interesting. Thanks for sharing j-man. |
| # Posted 2007-07-07 00:53:12 | |
| JimBaker: | TV is entertainment (and sometimes news). Do orienteers aspire to be entertainers? (Not sure, just asking.)
The Internet, though, has led to some interesting coverage, at least for those who are interested in the sport, who are usually those who do the sport. (Which is probably true for most sports.) |
| # Posted 2007-07-07 01:18:08 | |
| jjcote: | Do orienteers aspire to be entertainers?
Well, what's the objective of getting the sport to be visible to a TV audience: Possibility 1: People will see the sport, decide that it looks like an interesting thing to do, and will start participating themselves. (I don't think this happens with many US spectator sports.) Possibility 2: People will see the sport, decide that it looks like an interesting thing to watch, and will keep watching. Companies will see that the sport attracts eyeballs, and will want to advertise, thereby providing an income stream that can be used to advance the sport, or to pay the participants (either as prizes, or as training sponsorships). |
| # Posted 2007-07-08 08:08:35 | |
| Tundra/Desert: | Simmo's post was one of the best I ever read on AP. Ken, can you take a suggestion for the future? Would it be possible to have best-of nominations a-la Craigslist? (And I know I should contribute... coming!) |
| # Posted 2007-07-08 12:22:16 | |
| cedarcreek: | Simmo, don't you know that Football is a paradigm of U.S. Culture? (That link is a pdf file.) |
| # Posted 2007-07-15 16:20:32 | |
| Vector: | All about the money. =)
The good news is the media world is changing. The audience of people that are active who are too busy to spend all day in front of a TV are becoming more reachable via internet. And there's lots of opportunity for popularizing orienteering through new media to get it to the point that it does have greater presence on TV. |
| # Posted 2007-07-15 17:37:05 | |
| simmo: | I agree with Vector, but we have to get our act together. The WOC in Denmark was a brilliant example of internet coverage (albeit the tracking was difficult to use). JWOC in Australia was good, considering that live video was not an option. However (and I know that NSWOA resources were stretched to the limit) it is absolutely vital to get the results and maps/routes up quickly. While the Australian Champs were separate from JWOC (different web site), nevertheless the organising team was basically the same, and as I write the results for the Australian Champs, held over 36 hours ago, are still not up.
I attended a minor event in Perth today, and the results were on OAWA's web site within 4 hours. |
| # Posted 2007-07-15 18:09:06 | |
| simmo: | Cedarcreek, that is exactly right! And since Iraq just beat the Australian soccer team (which has several stars from the British and other European leagues) 3-1, its pretty clear that the American footballers in the US forces don't stand a chance in Iraq. Maybe George and Condy should go talk to Becks now that he's in Hollywood.
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| # Posted 2007-07-15 22:34:07 | |
| upnorthguy: | One of my pet peeves is that (in Canada anyway, and I assume this to be the case in the US as well) we are usually great at the technical parts of putting on races (map, courses, flags in the right spot etc) but are generally hopeless at the public relations/advertising side of things. I could give specific examples, but won't - at the risk of being interpreted as being critical of certain clubs or individuals, which of course is not my intent. But we have all been there - 'big' races held miles and miles down back roads (the "middle of nowhere" with O-markers and arrows to help find the parking (which obviously don't mean anything to potential spectators/media). And you ask at the ice cream shop in the closest town what's going on and they are not even aware that a national championships/world cup race/team trials are even going on. Fortunately, we are getting better in some cases, as at least the sprint distance allows us to be more visible, with the 2007 and 2006 COCs and the 2006 NAOCs being great examples.
I think that one of the issues is that so few of us are interested in this side of things. In Whitehorse we had briefly considered putting together a bid to host JWOC in 2010 - but in the end decided not to - and one of the reasons (there were others) was that we simply did not have people with the energy or interest to deal with things like accomodation, media liaison, transportation, 'care and comfort' - all the administration type parts of such a big event. Like most "O" clubs ours is made up primarily of people who enjoy the mapping, course design, SI side of things. Lucky is the club who has people into the admin/promo side of things! |
| # Posted 2007-07-16 07:24:21 | |
| ksumner11: | Orienteering and adventure racing both suffer from a format that is not easy to cover. The races can be remote and even if you plant a camera at every checkpoint (which wouldn't make for a good race) you still wouldn't get the full picture of what it takes to get from bag to bag. It just doesn't translate. I think both sports have started to use the internet well in the last few years. I've seen streaming video and race blogs for both sports. Some sites are better than others as some race directors are slow to get on this boat. Heed these words.......FORGET TRYING TO PUT ORIENTEERING OR ADVENTURE RACING ON TV. Our numbers will never justify it and it won't be good TV. Work on making the online media better. Pre and post race interviews, race cams and consistent and timely updates to the results is what I want to see in a web site. For adventure racing www.checkpointzero.com is my favorite.....but it can be a little slow some times. |
| # Posted 2007-07-16 20:34:15 | |
| JanetT: | Both upnorthguy's and ksumner11's have hit the nail on the head about the majority of orienteers enjoying the technical aspects more than marketing the sport here in the US.
In the US we used to have someone in charge of Media and Public Relations (title was Director of Media Relations, under VP-Marketing), i.e. Jon Nash, who did a superb job for many, many years. Naturally, after a while it became too much for one person and he has stepped back. No one has picked up the slack. Any volunteers? :-) As USOF webmaster, I am more capable at the technical side of the site than in 'reporting'. USOF (ONA as well) needs more reporters to send in stories!!! I'd be more than happy to put any news/reports/stories, etc. on the USOF site IF you send them to me. There's too much going on in USOF for me to look for them. I keep up with articles printed in online newspapers (via Google alerts), and add ones I feel are appropriate to the list on the Media page, but there is not much added by our members themselves. |
| # Posted 2007-07-17 14:31:49 | |
| gruver: | Further to JanetT, the NZOF post of Media Officer has been vacant for ages. The NZOF website doesn't carry newsy news. (It has fairly stiff releases from officials.) The OA website is a little better - but since Bob Mowatt left the promo job for the presidency I wonder if there's a guiding hand. There's a brief item on the Auusie Champs elite winners, but the full results are STILL in hiding.
But you can appreciate that the volunteers who ran JWOC and the Aussie Champs might be tired - and have day jobs. I alternate between evangelical zeal and "hey lets just do what we enjoy most". What I enjoyed most about last week was following JWOC. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't even hear the audio (what ANOTHER bit of software needed???) But the live results, Blair's text commentary, and other kiwis inhabiting the NZ forum Maptalk made it rivetting. |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 09:46:36 | |
| TheInvisibleLog: | JWOC was well publicised in the local Dubbo media. The town knew the event was on. The main impact seems to have been a significant premium charged for accomodation. As an experiment one of our group rang the office of their accomodation and pretended to book for the following week. Prices were much much lower! A low profile has some advantages.
Bad luck gruver that you missed hearing Jase making his Per Forsberg imitations.. that's for sure. |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 12:39:04 | |
| jankoc: | I think that by making orienteering productions more spectacular - with 3D representation of the terrain, head camera action showing the challenges an orienteer faces, etc., it would be possible to attract more viewers. You don't have to do much about orienteering to market it as an extreme sport - you actually just need to bring over to the viewers what is really happening (instead of introducing Micr-o etc., which makes the runners stop in front of the camera -> the opposite of extreme sport).
I wrote something about it here, including a sample video, http://news.worldofo.com/2007/07/18/woo-tv-gueorgi... Take a look, and tell me if you think anything along these lines could help bringing orienteering out to a larger audience? |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 14:32:09 | |
| simmo: | Too much Thierry talking, and what he is saying is probably too technical for non-orienteers to understand. I don't think either the head camera or the Catching Features terrain view worked too well. The Follow Me videos on Thierry's own web site (http://tero1.free.fr/ ) are much more interesting, and may appeal to some extreme sport types - if there were some way of explaining what he is doing, and how difficult it is. Sub-titles maybe? |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 17:23:44 | |
| TheInvisibleLog: | Seeing Blair was such a hit.. here he is hard at work typing his commentary.
Re the T-shirt. It would be easy to love the terrain used for JWOC. Dubbo as the object of love might be stretching credulity though.  |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 18:30:03 | |
| Cristina: | Take a look, and tell me if you think anything along these
lines could help bringing orienteering out to a larger audience? I think your concept would be quite interesting for existing avid orienteers. I'm not sure that non-orienteers would be interested for more than 7 seconds. Or even recreational orienteers. I don't think getting O on tv is going to draw a whole lot of new people. I'm a fairly adventurous person interested in trying new things (unlike many tv watchers), but I've never run out and tried something just because I saw it on tv. That said, I think it would be quite possible to have tv coverage that was interesting. It just has to involve drama and action shots, just like all that tv coverage of those boring Olympic sports. |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 20:36:29 | |
| JanetT: | Re TV coverage, we actually discovered and got started in orienteering after seeing the 3-2-1-Contact! segment on orienteering aimed at kids in 1989-90. Ed Hicks and HVO had a hand in the segment, and it looked like fun. This was a science-oriented show for young children, and Greg was 7 at the time. Coincidentally, we saw a listing in our local paper for an orienteering event; we went and the rest is history.
It showed the map, and showed a pair of children (~12?) running down a trail to their next checkpoint and finding it and punching in (pinpunching, of course, in those days). You don't need a long segment or a lot of info, you just need to get it out to many eyes as often as you can. That's where a good Media/PR person can help. Your average kid may not have been watching the show back then, though, unless his parent(s) were interested in teaching him/her science concepts... |
| # Posted 2007-07-18 23:57:11 | |
| Nielsen: | To echo JanetT's post a bit, I discovered AR by watching Eco Challenge 10 years ago and eventually was introduced to Orienteering. As matter of fact most ARers I've spoken to about how they got into the sport said they first saw it and were interested because of Eco Challenge.
Although I think, at leas here in the States, O is a ways from carrying mainstream television appeal, I would never or never agree to throw out the idea of O on TV. There are countless stories and scenarios from my own work experience where seemingly ridiculous marketing concepts, TV ads, shows, movies do phenomenally well. Did anyone catch the VS coverage of the Americas Cup? Granted I've done a fair amount of competitive sailing and therefore have a basis of understanding that others may not, however I thought the TV coverage was simply awesome and would have appealed to nearly any sports fan that would give it an honest chance. Further, I frankly love sports coverage here in the US, that's not to say it may not be as ideal as some other corners of the globe. I have three dedicated soccer/football channels to choose games from all over the world. I watch all the major tennis tournaments, Tour de France, Americas Cup, and they all have a high level of production quality. I can see the Boston Marathon, NYC Triathlon, Xterra Championships, Track & Field the list goes on. |
| # Posted 2007-07-19 06:32:49 | |
| simmo: | And by pure coincidence, the first Tero Follow Me video is up on World of O http://worldofo.com/
Follow Me VI is better though. In response to Cristina I agree with JanetT that any small segment of orienteering on tv, no matter how they do it, always brings a few curious new people to the next event. So imagine how many would come if the coverage was really good. In the discussion so far, no mention has been made of MTBO. Some really exciting footage could be made where more speed is involved! |
| # Posted 2007-07-19 06:57:41 | |
| bshields: | Well, if you're going for exciting footage, you can't beat that Crazy Choice clip with the cliff-jumpin' o-dude and the blood-pumpin' soundtrack. Sure, it's not real orienteering, but neither are any of the other publicity stunts that seem to be popular these days. Plus it definitely appeals to the sportin' types out there, by which I mean the competitive demographic that kind of gets turned off by the not-evokin'-a-sense-of-cliff-jumpin' AOWN.
For the record, I like team sports, don't watch televised sports for the coaches, seriously doubt that Mario Zagallo needed to start off practice with some freestylin' for Roberto Carlos to do this, don't agree with the notion that aerobic threshold requirements should determine what qualifies as a worthwhile sport, and even watch American Football and Baseball from time to time. |
| # Posted 2007-07-19 07:15:46 | |
| gruver: | Well not many compliments Jan but let me say that I think this is an extremely significant step. I mean generating visuals without having to go up in a helicopter. Thanks to Catching Features also.
We will eventually get a "Virtual Spectator" type of simulation, and it will be due to lots of steps like this one. Already this is becoming useable for orienteers' own learning and coaching. |
| # Posted 2007-07-19 07:21:07 | |
| Cristina: | Don't worry Jan, I did like the video! The thing is that it is a very detailed view of one person's run. It's fascinating for people who understand what he's talking about, but I'm not sure it's the kind of coverage that would pull in newbies. |
| # Posted 2007-07-19 14:07:26 | |
| gruver: | No but it's a building block that we need.
I think that the map, valuable as it is for orienteers, may be superfluous for the general public. I think that we have to portray a race, by post-race time-shifting of several competitor traces on a terrain image - not too many or it will become a blur. Then as we "fly" across the terrain we'll be able to compare the different approaches and see who's ahead. Anyone can appreciate a race on some level. I don't know anything about sailing, but I quite enjoyed the America's Cup. To capture real images for this by camera is impossible. That's why this image generation is significant. Then dubb in a voiceover by Per Forsberg explaining some of the "whys" and "ifs" and the race really comes alive. |
| # Posted 2007-07-20 01:17:05 | |
| Gil: | I came to states in 1994 and I had vague idea of rules for American football and baseball. Everything looked to me totally chaotic, irrational and after watching 10, 15 minutes I'd switch to another channel. After while I figured out the rules, learned what's a good play, what's not and I am American Football fan. I did not become baseball fan after learning rules of baseball however I do enjoy watching baseball when it gets into - what Americans call it - "World series" type of playoffs (it should not be called World Series in my opinion but that's topic for different story...).
Look at the TV coverage what Gary Kasparov got when he was playing IBM irons. Is chess exciting game to watch on TV? Not at all. But why such non-TV friendly sport got coverage on TV? Because millions and millions of people know how to play chess. Granted - we turn to TV for entertainment and as many of you stated above - it's hard to imagine how TV coverage of orienteering could be as entertaining as game of American Football. And let's be realistic here - I doubt that orienteering would ever be more entertaining on TV compared to American Football in America or Soccer/Football in rest of the world. Let's forget about general population for a minute (meaning people who have no clue about orienteering) and let me as you this question. If there was coverage of JWOC, WOC on TV available - would you watch it? I would. The point I am trying to make here is - it is possible to get TV coverage of the sport that is not visually entertaining if there are enough "experts" of the sport around - like chess for example. And even such "entertaining" sports as American Football and baseball can be boring to someone who is totally clueless about the rules. |
| # Posted 2007-07-20 10:32:01 | |
| gruver: | This topic is about popularising orienteering Gil, so forgetting about the general public doesn't seem helpful to me. Coverage of orienteering for orienteers is a different issue.
But you're absolutely right that if the audience can't understand something it will be boring. So let's listen to the Norwegian TV2 man who said "we will never again show an orienteering map when broadcasting orienteering on TV." I would think that without the map, a bird's eye view of a race through natural terrain finding a number of points is a fairly universal concept. |
| # Posted 2007-07-25 06:53:01 | |
| SteveN: | "it appears to me that no sport is acceptable in the US (in the media at least) unless it is a team sport, which has coaches bellowing orders, time-outs, periods, mutliple teams, and fan interaction."
Hugely popular and frequently televised NASCAR directly contradicts all those supposed requirements for popularity in the US. But anyways, I think there are probably a hundred more or less obscure sports full of people who think their sport should be a popular TV sport for every one sport that actually is, or will ever become, a popular TV sport. I played ultimate frisbee for around 20 years starting in 1984. In the late 80's, a lot of players were confident that ultimate was the sport of the future, and that it was only a matter of time before it became a popular spectator sport. Of course it never happened, despite several advantages (I think) over Orienteering as a spectator sport, the biggest one being that the action takes place within a limited area with unobstructed visibility. And, of course, there are...you know...teams, and time outs, and even some bellowing coaches. My advice for my fellow ultimate players and orienteers is to enjoy your sport and forget about it ever becoming much of a popular spectator sport. |
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